Military/Service Discipline

Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (SSAA)
NSW Branch (Inc.)
NSW Military Service Discipline
AGM Minutes
 27^th September 2003. ANZAC Range (Sydney).

Meeting opened 1600hrs

Meeting Chaired by David Waters (State discipline chairman)

Attendees:

Apologies:

Appointment of Minutes Secretary:  Gary Willett (nobody volunteered).

Motion minutes of last years AGM be accepted by Jamie Harris.
Seconded by Brad Hedges.
Moved.

DISCIPLINE CHAIRMAN’S REPORT - delivered by Dave Waters (Chairman).

- This was the first full year without Noel Cross.  Noel has been truly missed and we hope the discipline will continue to grow for him and all the others that have got this discipline to where it is now.

- 2003 was a very good year for the discipline that tripled it’s growth in a space of 8 months.

- 2003 has been a very busy year indeed.  The chairman beyond also being a shooter, has experienced costs over $2000 of personal money and thousands of hours consumed by planning, organising, working, pickup’s and delivery’s, web site development and administrative duties.  Almost half of the costs went into hundreds of phone calls and faxes – never mind the costs of toner and ink cartridges.

- After the 2002 AGM, it was accepted that a “Grand Prix Series” be run that would allow various active ranges to each host a “state event” to gain experience and exposure of their facilities and skills.  It satisfied in every sense and results/achievements were well beyond what anybody dreamt of.

Many shooters seem to think the Grand Prix concept was completely the idea of David Waters.  This is NOT the case.  Many shooters helped come up with the plan for it, and it has certainly been a success in both interest, but also team spirit.

Running such a series allowed the state to learn a lot about itself and what it has to offer, as much as also identifying area’s that need improvement and work.  It allowed us to find out what works, and what doesn’t.   Pleasing competitors is the only thing required to make it a successful event, but the hard part is understanding what each competitor wants.  Then, compromising to try and satisfy everybody.  For this reason, GP hosts also ran “local” events in conjunction with the GP round, making the whole event a great success.

In total, 147 shooters took part in the GP series with all and full details of the 2003 GP are on notice board and NSW Web Site.

- The expansion of the NSW Mil/Serv discipline Web Site has been a very important tool that gives everybody on the net a common place to go for information and documentation.  It has been used extensively with over 4500 hits in 2003 alone.

- NSW discipline formally adopted the City Vs Country, Branch Challenge and ANZAC Day Memorial events as official state events to rival the State Championships.  These are scheduled to run almost back to back approx 6 months to the State Champs.  It has been very successful planning that has also increased interest in this 2003 NSW Championships – with 82 competitors thus far.

- NSW State postal shoot for Std Rifle was successful at the same time as a failure.   For ranges to run the scheduled matches, they needed 300m facilities.  The “typical” ranges ran scheduled matches but those people in regional area’s that could not afford the time or finance to travel missed out.  For this reason, 2004 is not, at this stage, planning to run a postal for this class to contribute to the Grand Prix series.

- NSW also ran a state postal for Martini Cadet rifles.  It has been a great success with over 60 shooters.  We found it amazing how the postal works so well to attract people “for something different”.  Giving people the opportunity to bring these great little rifles out of the closet and actually use them in a match has been well received by the entrants.  Also, this match has been accepted to run at many of the state matches.

- Pistol is half our discipline and 2003 has been spent feeling out interest of this side.  It made its debut this year during our 2003 State Champs.  We are hopeful it will continue to be supported.

- Expansion on matches at the state championships had 2003 host the inaugural running of NSW Black Powder and Lever action last Friday.  These matches proved to be very popular.  Next year, we hope, we will be introducing optical classes to shoot the “typical” championship course of fire over the weekend.  Our types of rifle are starting to become scarce and we need to consider that one-day, our discipline will not longer be based on the equipment we use, but rather on the courses of fire we conduct.

- 2003, and back dated to 2000, we implemented:

                                                            - State discipline competition structure,

                                                            - NSW ranking system based on state sanctioned matches,

                                                            - formal and pre-determined state teams selection criteria,

                                                            - shooter of the year,

                                                            - hall of fame.

(Many people thankful for David and Peter’s work to formalise, document and publish the above systems.  Has helped shooters and competitors understand where everything fits in).

- Hall of Fame currently stands with 5 people inducted, plus many shooters close on the heals.  The most recent inductee to the HoF was Dick Bennett.  Congratulations went out to him (applause).

- David as chairman was thankful and grateful to the NSW range/branch discipline captains that have supported the discipline, the sport, and the scheduled and sanctioned matches including the Grand Prix Series.

- With NSW Mil/Serv now having its own Internet domain address, it has allowed generic e-mail addresses that streamline contact information for adverts in magazines etc.  For example, we advertise email addresses as SDC@msdaus.com or SDCA etc which will then be re-routed to whomever is the “current chairman.

- Special thanks went to Craig Mahoney who has work tirelessly on the NSW web site.  He has taken a GREAT web site, thanks to Peter Szacsvay, and made it better.  Craig organized our own domain, a host (thanks to prerequisit IT) and built the site and added all the info.  This web site is very important to us because it is the home and history of the discipline.

- Without doubt, one of the most important people to this discipline has been the work of Peter Szacsvay (2000-2003 chairman alternate).  Peter has been brilliant in many ways – but probably for being remembered as the person who created the Martini Cadet Postal – that over 80 shooters competed in across the country.  As Pete would say, “we have rescued a little bit of Australian heritage from obscurity”.

- QLD and VIC are looking at us with interest.  They are desperate to know what is going on and may perhaps copy it.  This fact is very exciting.

- The FUTURE………who knows.  There are many things that affect this.  But there are a few things to be wary of:

- New rule book possible to come in 2004 and therefore, any published events for 2004 will have to be in accordance with the new rule book EXCEPT where otherwise specified on the flyer, or in the advert. 

- International postal event – competition outline and course of fire posted on NSW web site once fully confirmed.  Nothing is confirmed at this stage.  Information will be send around the country to have all, and any, interested ranges participate.

- Finally, David thanked all the supportive and enthusiastic shooters who vote with positive and creative action to help make this discipline grow.  Without them, this discipline would not be what it is today.

Motion this report be accepted.
Proposed by Wal Cameron
Seconded by Norm Frappell
Moved.
Comments: Nil.

STATE CHAIRMAN ALTERNATE REPORT

Peter Szacsvay did not prepare a report as he was unable to attend the AGM with personal duties.  David spoke favourably of Peter and all the hard work he has done over the last 3 years.

RANGE AND CAPTAIN REPORTS

ARMIDALE:  Again, Peter Szacsvay was not available to deliver his report.  David Reminded everybody of the fantastic job done by Armidale and Peter did at the 2003 NSW ANZAC Day Memorial event.  David mentioned that it was one of the best events of the year and that it wasn’t hard to achieve this based on the “package” the Uralla range (used by SSAA Armidale) has to offer members and visitors.

David encouraged everybody to attend the ANZAC Memorial Shoot at Armidale in 2004 as it is assured of being bigger and better than this year – a weekend event instead of just 1 day.

Motion this report be accepted.
Proposed by  Jamie Harris
Seconded by  Norm Frappell
Moved.
Comments: Nil.

BATHURST:  Wayne Cole gave report for Bathurst.  Spoke highly of the attendance at their Central Region Open held at the Lithgow range as Bathurst was not available.  2004 event will have pistol included.  Rifle will be expanded to include Saturday as local events from 9am till 12pm (range closes for fullbore).  Martini Cadet will be a welcome addition to the event weekend.  The actual CRO will still be a 1 day event and Friday and Saturday are used to satisfy GP commitments and offer extra matches for distant travellers.

Mentioned was the long history of the Bathurst range and that being council owned, it is under threat.

Motion this report be accepted.
Proposed by Jamie Harris
Seconded by Andrew Prowse
Moved.
Comments: Nil.

CASINO: Report delivered by Darren Ottery.  Discussed the changeover of the captaincy as Daryl has had a new addition to the family (few wished him well) and Colin Maloney is to take over.

This years “Border War”  GP round was successful and had good representation from Queensland.  2004 Border war will be a bigger event including pistols.  All are asked to come and have a good time.

Motion this report be accepted.
Proposed by Wayne Cole
Seconded by Brendon O’Connor
Moved.
Comments: Nil.

MUDGEE:  Rob Spittles gave report.  Problems with Rylstone council voiced and that the range will soon be under the control of Mudgee council.  This should fix up the problems had in past years with camping.

There has been a complaint about the pistol range firing position behind the adjacent rifle range firing position and that a concrete wall may have to be built.

The current rifle range normally used by the discipline is now restricted to 300m (was 500m) but the dam will be bulldozed to make way for a 1000yard range.

Motion this report be accepted.
Proposed by Wal Cameron
Seconded by Wayne Cole
Moved.
Comments: Nil.

TAMWORTH:  Wal Cameron spoke on behalf of Tamworth (TPVRC).  Everything is going well at Tamworth.  They have a great range with free access to it.

TPVRC are also ASRA affiliated and are holding the ASRA NSW State Championships in 2 weeks.  They are expecting a good roll up and everybody is welcome.

Members can expect more 3P and Rapid B’s to be shot in the future and are counting on track for a great year in 2004 when running the NSW Clubs Challenge in May.

Motion this report be accepted.
Proposed by Andrew Prowse
Seconded by Rob Spittles
Moved
Comments: Nil.

SYDNEY:  David Waters spoke first about Silverdale and asked Peter Cuddy to speak on behalf of Malabar.
There are 2 ranges here in Sydney that run Military/Service on behalf of the SSAA.  These are Silverdale and Malabar (ANZAC).  Interest is good but we suffer greatly from the “big city” syndrome. This are by way of range availability, range time and shooter/member working hours interfering with shooting time and attendance.  These days, in Sydney, many of us suffer from no longer our working week being Mon-Fri 9-5 …it is now 7 days.  As this sport doesn’t feed the family, we do our best with what we have – as frustrating as it is.  This is the biggest reason why many of us here in the city, LOVE to travel to the country to shoot.  We hope 2004 will be even bigger.

Peter spoke about Malabar and it’s association with the MRCA being very strong.  The SSAA and NSWRA have concerns over the future of the range knowing that the local government would prefer it shut down.  Also, that this being the case, the groups on the range cannot do any development of facilities and what we currently have is all we ever will have.

Motion this report be accepted.
Proposed by Greg Keenan
Seconded by Brendon O’Connor
Moved.
Comments: Nil.

CHAIRMAN AND ALTERNATE ELECTIONS

David, as chairman, gave few last words on the chairman responsibility.  He asked people to remember the chairman must be a team player, easily contactable, and dedicated both financially and with time to commit to the discipline and the sport.

He pointed out that the structure and foundation of the discipline is already in place and with the great help from all the ranges, plus all the dedicated shooters across the state, the discipline can be run throughout 2004 by just about anybody will to dedicated 5hrs per week to it.

- David Waters (Chairman) vacated the chair.

- Peter Szacsvay (Alternate) vacated the chair.

BOTH positions are declared vacant.

- Temporary chair elected.  Nominations: Peter Cuddy took the temp chair.

- Call nominations for CHAIRMAN:

1)Chair Nominee  Wayne Cole

            Proposed by Jamie Harris - Declined.

2)Chair Nominee David Waters

            Proposed by Darren Ottery

Seconded by Brad Hedges

            Position was accepted by David Waters

           No further nominations.  The position was awarded to David Waters (applause).

                         2004 State Discipline Chairman is David Waters.

 - Call nominations for ALTERNATE CHAIRMAN:

David Waters spoke that Peter Szacsvay will not be standing for Alternate as he has held the position for 3years and with a new career, can not afford the time.

David spoke of the duties of the Alternate in the true form as per the discipline chairmans handbook, but asked the alternate to assist the chairman in all capacity as the discipline is affectively 2 (rifle and pistol) which requires 2 people to control it.

1)Alt Nominee Nick Abrahall

            Proposed by Carlos Herreros

Seconded by Ben Doherty

             Position was declined by Nick.

 2)Alt Nominee  Wayne Cole

Proposed by Jamie Harris

             Position was declined by Wayne.

3)Alt Nominee Jamie Harris

             Proposed by Brendon O’Connor

             Seconded by Rob Spittles

             Nominee accepted the position

             No further nominations and the position was awarded to Jamie Harris.

                          2004 State Discipline Alternate Chairman is  Jamie Harris.

David thanks the group for supporting him and assured the group to put all his energy afforded to the discipline in its best interest for both the sport and the shooters.

David welcomed Jamie to his position.

2004 STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS LOCATION

- We had Port Macquarie nominate until about 1 month ago when they withdrew because of new constructions happening on their range.

- At this stage, there have been no nominations to host but Armidale have shown interest – and would be heavily supported due to the perfect surroundings and hospitality of the local members.

- As there were no nominations, it was asked if it should be left for the chairman, and alternate, to review in the coming months and advise at a later date.

- Rob Spittles from Mudgee spoke up and offered Mudgee to run the State Champs in 2004.  This is to be passed by the Mudgee committee and members.  David asked Rob to have the captain etc submit an “application to host” document ASAP.

- David mentioned that if nobody volunteers to run the 2004 state, it would default back to Sydney.

GENERAL BUSINESS

- National interest discussed.  David Waters brought up the point about the surprising lack of interest from most NSW members and hope more will support it.  It is understood the lack of interest is that it is so far away (Townsville) and that NSW has so much shooting now that people don’t feel the need to travel to far away distances just to shoot.  Also, finance and time is thin for many shooters who would otherwise go.

-  NSW Rankings, State Teams,  Hall of Fame etc  - by SDC

David asked who was not clear on how these worked.  Most were happy and understood the concepts.  A few new shooters asked for more information and David suggest the NSW web site for all the details.  David pointed out that the current shooters with HoF points etc are posted on print outs stuck on the walls along with 2003 NSW discipline information for review.

Ben Doherty asked David to have National accept our NSW Hall of Fame as Ben thinks the NSW version is very good, but the state is too small to have such a system and it would be more attractive on a national level.   David replied saying he would take it up but would like Ben to give him a model to base it on remembering there is only 2 national shoots per year (Nationals and National Postal).

Nick Abrahall spoke highly of the discipline in 2003 and the job done by David Waters.  He asked why NSW needs to go to national with details of what NSW is doing.   We should be concentrating on our own competition and building the sport in our state.  National can either follow us, or continue its current path.

Wayne Cole talked about how NSW is moving forward in leaps and bounds and we should not be concerned with National issues, as there is still a lot more that can be done in NSW.

 - 2004 NSW STATE COMPETITIONS - by SDC

-         format and agenda for the 2004 state champs will be released in the AS hopefully by the end of the year – before the first match. 

- It is recommended that people check the discipline web site in case time runs out for printing in the AS. 

            - Next year, 2004, the GP will continue for rifle as per 2003 but will also include PISTOL. 

            - Next year, we will have: 

                        - 9 rifle GP rounds, 3 of which are State Events (CvC, Clubs & ANZAC).

                        - 7 pistol GP rounds.

                        - State champs

                        - Inaugural Camp Perry Postal competition – explained later. 

            - Next years GP series includes 3 new ranges – Grafton, Fairlight and Batemans Bay. 

The floor asked for more information on the International postal.  David explained it in detail and it’s course of fire.  The information will be posted on the discipline web site when the event is finalised.  David mentioned that many NSW members have shot overseas and that a test run of the course of fire took place at Bathurst to great success and to much enjoyment of the participants.

 - GRADE CARD MAINTENANCE  - report by SDC

David touched on the grading system and grade card maintenance. 

- Current cards are those that have 3 current grade scores recorded within 12 months of the competition being contested 

- New grades are based on the average of the first 3 shoots UNTIL 3 grades are shot.  Captains and DC has authority to promote or demote grades on appeal. 

-  “Junior” is not a grade – it is a class, or group.  Shooters under 18, shoot in Junior AND the achieved grade base on their historical scores.  Junior shooters follow the same grade structure as ALL adults.  The “Junior” class is an “additional” group for shooters under 18 – similar to “Seniors” or “Veterans”.  In short, a shooter under 18 to shoot in “A” grade AND “J” grade. 

- Out of date grade cards put the shooter as UN GRADED….NOT Master.  Example was 2002 Nationals where a first timer left with 3^rd place in “Grand Master” due to lack of competitors. 

- New shooters shoot ungraded.  BOTH ungraded new shooters and shooters with out of date grade cards ARE eligible for top gun and all ungraded “Open” trophies only - reason is motivation for shooters to participate and get graded. 

- At the discretion of the host branch/club and competition disputes committee, IF each grade is represented by more than 3 shooters in each grade, a new shooter may shoot in the highest grade. 

- At the discretion of the host branch/club and competition disputes committee, IF each grade is represented by more 3 shooters, a shooter may be graded on the day if participation of that event becomes their 3^rd grade score.  Then, that shooter may be put into that calculated grade to claim a trophy. 

Motion this report be accepted.
Proposed by Wayne Cole
Seconded by Wal Cameron
Moved

-         RULEBOOK for rifle request to be overhauled.

Peter Cuddy moved a motion to have the SDC go to the national AGM and ask for the rulebook to be re-written based on his belief the current rulebook is written to suit the years of pre-96 when most shooters used semi-automatic firearms.

Motioned was seconded by Ben Doherty
Passed (note, only 6 people voted then later people were against the motion as they realized they did not agree with Peter’s initial point or purpose).

David spoke about the rulebook already being overhauled hence why the current rulebook is 1996.  Also, David asked all members, including Peter Cuddy, to list for him within the next 10 days ideas on what should be changed in the current rulebook to be brought up at the National AGM in 6 weeks time.

David also mentioned that changing the format of matches and events runs the risk of actually changing the discipline itself.  We must be careful and smart about what we do and to learn from the fate suffered by other disciplines who went conservative in all aspects and now are losing interest if not already.  This is 2003, not 1973, and we have to compete with cheaper and more exciting past times.  Our discipline is one of the few that can match the excitement gained through any computer game or internet.

- NSW MATCHES

Ray Harrold asked if the NSW Black Powder match courses of fire should be discussed to try and increase interest.  David gave a brief insight into how the NSW matches were started and mentioned that effectively, at State level, it is up to the state chairman and host branches/clubs to run matches they deem appropriate for their facilities within the guidelines and spirit of the discipline.

David congratulated Ray Harrold and Richard Losiak for running a fun and enjoyable inaugural Military/Service black powder championships.  It was noted that the inaugural revealed some improvements for the matches and David would work with Ray and Richard to review them for a better event in 2004.

Peter Cuddy brought up that in the future, matches of similar make up should be run to make it easier for organizers.  Many people spoke against this claiming that if everything shot is the same format an distance, then we could create boredom and shooters will lose interest in the events.  Some Sydney members reminded Peter that the Sydney Cup ran very successfully in July this year with a more complicated format that the state championships.

David spoke about the accepted and gazetted NSW discipline special matches that are detailed on the NSW web site.  He asked ranges also consider running  them at their Grand Prix rounds next year to offer more exposure.

- RIFLE CLASSES

George Papallo asked the discipline to consider opening up the Iron Sights section of the discipline to include commercial action rifles that are fitted (std or aftermarket) with iron sights.  This opened up very interesting and constructive points for the benefit of the discipline.

David spoke of the different discipline conceptual opinions amongst shooters around the state, country and the different associations that participate in this discipline.  He said that some people, and/or groups, look at this discipline in a “course of fire” sense, but others look at in an “equipment” sense.

Interest in this debate grew showing it being obvious that there is many view on this issue.  George again spoke and pointed out that our discipline caters for all types of optical rifles within the spirit of the discipline, but leaves out the potential of introducing greater numbers by catering for commercial/factory rifles to compete when fitted with iron sights.  

Possibilities were thrown around in that they could compete in Modified class as any advantage of a new rifle would be diluted against modified rifles brought up to equal, or better, target spec.

Time was escaping fast, and with dinner getting cold, David spoke about how 2003/04 will be a massive growing curve with emphases on growth in the pistol side of the discipline and it’s optical rifle side.  David asked for somebody to move a motion that we agree to all consider George Papallo’s request over the next 6-12 months after we have all experienced the new growth components of the discipline, and report back to the state chairman a few months or so before the 2004 AGM to have the matter debated.

Motion moved by Gary Willett
Seconded by Kerry Benson
Passed.

David also pointed out that a commercial action such as a Remington 700 issued to as a sniper/tactical rifle should be able to shoot iron sights modified.  He gave a scenario for people to think about being that if a standard sniper rifle has its scope removed, then in theory it becomes modified.  So if iron sights are fitted then it should be able to fit into Class H for modified iron sight rifles.  David asked shooters think of this scenario over the coming months.  

George Papallo also asked the possibility of optical class rifles shooting along the same course of fire as the iron sight matches.  David pointed out that this issue, and any configuration issues like it, are up to the host club.

A call came from the floor to bring the meeting to an end as we were all getting hungry.  We did.

Meeting closed 18:10hrs